look my experience with guys in fma fandom perfectly illustrated to me
Ugh… seriously. I think this is really unfair and terrible how you are humiliating us and diffamating us.:( In a hand, it’s kinda cool because the social gender roles are reverted, you are the one in power here, and we are the ones which are humiliated with accusations we try to protest against, but which are dismissed with authority argument. In another hand, well, I’m not sure this helps in the debate and being called to sexism and misogynist why it’s something one fight against in every day life, is really painful.
I never called you unapropriate names such as “kitten”, that would be lame and awfully condescending. We have never stated we were feminist, which we are not per se, only women can actually be feminists. “Men” however can be influenced by feminism and debate about it, I guess ?
As I already said, our thoughts are largely influenced by materialist feminism and that’s it. Not saying it’s better than other feminism, just saying that yeah, it does promote certain subversive values which we don’t find Winry embodies.
I think you’re the one who doesn’t give a shit about what we think,because I asked you countless times where we wrote misogynist things and you just keep on saying so without specifically referring to something we wrote.
I’m going to say one last time:
What is subversive is valuing Winry’s accomplishments as much as accomplishments like fighting and busting heads
what’s subversive is that the narrative values Winry’s accomplishments when such accomplishments are typically seen as “lesser” due to stereotypes tied to misogyny and gender categories.
What’s subversive is that Winry is allowed to be an active strong character without having to imitate the masculine ideal of strength, to be strong in the way she chooses to be
What’s subversive is that this is a narrative written by a woman in which ALL SORTS of female accomplishments are celebrated, not just one kind.
THAT is subversive. Saying women can only be a certain kind of character isn’t. A man saying Winry is a disappointing character because she didn’t fight (and you include “active” in this, but how was Winry not active just because she chooses to heal, to create, to give life rather than harm? How do you define active outside of fighting? You’ve never clarified this) isn’t.
Again, you are a man trying to value your form of feminism (or whatever you choose to call it) over mine- I’ve had this experience a lot in FMA fandom. You never called me kitten and I’m glad you know that’s wrong (though that’s a term that’s rarely used these days), yeah, I wasn’t trying to imply you did, but I’m expressing how it made me feel in broad terms.
Painful things help you learn. If you’re fighting it, you shouldn’t promote it.
Say that the best female characters are ones who perform masculinity and are virtually indistiguishable from men
Demean a female character based on her traditionally feminine skills (never mind that these skills are presented as real and valuable in canon: the problem with female characters doing things like healing, etc. is that usually this is portrayed as the only way to be a woman and seen as less important than male skills: pitfalls FMA doesn’t fall into but these guys do)