britchan:

moonlightmiracle:

anamatics:

I FIND THE OUTER SENSHI BORING.

(cut for space, click for original post/see quotes out of context italicized below)

Great now I have to go all opinions/analysis/contrariness for the sake of it

he HATED the outers because they were the ‘stuck up older bitches’

Sounds like he must have been kind of a jerk in school to me, but then I’ve never been fond of guys who sling around that word so freely.

There’s not a ton of episodes that are JUST about the Outers. 

Of course not. Only the main five had a ton of episodes JUST about them. Does this make every supporting character worthless? Ultimately, there will always be characters that get less screentime than the main ones, but it doesn’t make those characters bad or boring. The fact that those characters weren’t explored as much can make them more intriguing for the viewer.

Haruka and Michiru are the most stereotypical lesbian couple to ever grace the animated screen. 

Nah, sorry. If that was true, they would have been murdered permanently (or more often than anyone else instead of just as much or less) to give the straight (male usually) protagonist long standing angst, been the butt of sexual jokes rather than making the jokes themselves, been sexualized in a male-gazey way more than any member of the cast and- oh are we talking real life stereotypes, not fiction ones?

Well, there actually are butch/femme couples in real life and I believe Takeuchi said she was actually inspired by one of those in a magazine (and Tarazuka theatre) so…there are actually many different kinds of lesbians like there are many different kinds of people? And some women act very masculine and some act very feminine? It may be an archetype you’re familiar with, but that doesn’t mean people falling into that archetype are instantly stereotypes.

Also, I believe they were sort of among the FIRST major overt lesbian couples to grace the animated screen, judging from the hubbub it caused even in Japan at the time. That probably has a lot to do with how iconic they’re considered.

I find that their very rigid gender roles really limit the perspective of what it means to be a gay woman and still be a superhero. 

I’m trying to figure out what this sentence means but I really can’t.  I would never say the handling of their sexuality was perfect (I don’t have the authority to say that), they never got to kiss on screen, the dynamic was “traditional” but I can’t judge that as a bad thing etc- but the fact it was handled at all was a big deal at the time- yes, the anime even caught heat in Japan for it- and that’s probably why they’re so iconic and well loved and not considered “limiting”.

While Michiru is beautiful and says hilarious embarrassing and overtly sexual things funny, her character is rather flat. 

I dunno, she seems pretty morally conflicted and emotionally distant to me. There’s also her artistry and her competitive streak, and her willingness to do anything for Haruka (including sacrifice the world, which we never know if Haruka would be willing to do for her). I always found the fact she was the first one to turn, that she was afraid to approach Haruka, and that she carries the guilt of bringing Haruka into the fight intriguing. She really initiated everything. And the contrast of her flirtatiousness and gracefulness/reserved nature is interesting. Yeah, a lot of that isn’t really developed, but the fact she has conflict by definition makes her a rounded character. And what’s undeveloped is largely because again, she’s not given much screen time. The fact that there’s a lot to work with that was never given time to be developed IS probably what makes her a good character to a lot of people and makes her intriguing.

Haruka has more depth, but a lot of unfinished questions with regards to her character.  We know her origin story, but not really.  Why is she so rigidly masculine?  Is Michiru just fitting that same rigidity within her appearance and mannerisms because Haruka is so masculine?

Um. Of all the things to be answered, why does THAT need to be answered? Did it occur to anyone that Haruka is masculine because she well…feels like it? Wants to be? Very masculine women and butch lesbians do exist. Do girly-girls need to give an explanation for wearing skirts and liking shopping? No? Then why does Haruka need an explanation for wearing ties and liking racecars? Haruka may be butch, she may be genderqueer, or yes, something may have happened that made her like acting masculine. Either way, it’s most likely it’s simply her personality/orientation and that…doesn’t need an explanation. And Michiru may also simply really like makeup and skirts. Lots of people do! And it’s also common for masculine and feminine people to get together! As much as you decry them for being stereotypes and say you are now familiar with “alternative sexuality” it seems like something about how these two express themselves has thrown you for a loop.

Also, in the manga, Haruka does wear miniskirts when she feels like it, and her crossdressing was part of her disguise. The two of them also play a role in the SuperS arc of the manga, making them have a little more screentime and development. And honestly, if you want fully developed characters for anyone in Sailor Moon (except Usagi and Ami) you have to look at the manga as well as the anime, because only the manga fully reveals everyone’s full backstories and motivations. Like, the fact Makoto lives alone and was orphaned at a young age is sooo important for understanding her protectiveness and desire to be close to people, her desire to get married young and her need for a family and romance, as well as her general self sufficient attitude- yet in the anime, it’s just assumed we know this. So why complain about the outers not getting much backstory when in the anime hardly anyone did?

If the show had examined these sorts of questions, I think I would still love the outers, but they’re so one-dimensional for all of Super and in StarS their role is reduced to saving the day/comic relief/kicking Seiya’s ass for touching Usagi that they’re just really boring.

Personally, I find them interesting for their grey morals despite their good intentions, and the fact they’re cynical, practical people in a HIGHLY idealistic universe. They’re morally conflicted and ambiguous characters while the main five are always totally righteous and idealistic. Yes, they’re proven wrong about their cynical viewpoint, yet at the same time the fact they have a point has to be acknowledged. And considering the amount of screen time they get, they go through quite a bit of character development as they become closer to/work better with the inner Senshi and raise Hotaru- especially in the manga, where that never gets derailed a bit with the betrayal gambit/freaking out over the Starlights.

They weren’t given enough screentime, so no wonder fans like them. They introduce new elements to the show and shook up the group dynamic, so they did their jobs adding interest as characters. You have a strong base to go off with their defined personalities and conflicts and a lot of intriguing questions to work with. Not getting enough screen time doesn’t make a character bad, it just makes them a supporting/underused character. I’ve seen lots of people desire a Outer Senshi OVA/wish they could’ve been in the SuperS anime.

Also, they have really cool attacks and are funny and deadpan and kick a lot of ass and I think it’s adorable how they’re always hitting on each other, even in battles to the death. I won’t lie.

And one more thing!  Why is everyone OBSESSED with Hotaru?  She’s not that cool, I don’t get it.

Probably has to do with the fact she has the power to DESTROY THE WORLD which is pretty hardcore. Also her friendship with Chibiusa was sweet, and I imagine a lot of people could relate to her social awkwardness and isolation, and the tragedy of her circumstances is pretty compelling. She has done some of the most dramatic self sacrifices on the show, and her silence attack? Everything went silent. That was cool. Also her outfit is neat. And her glaive. GLAIVES ARE AMAZING.

And again, she hardly got any screen time, which gives more the speculate about and more intrigue (and leaves fans feeling more affectionate towards her for gettiing snubbed). Mystery and coolness can be a great appeal, and the Outer Senshi kinda prove that.

TL;DR - Setsuna is the most awesomest outer senshi

I don’t see how Setsuna was more developed than Haruka and Michiru in the anime (she definitely was the most developed in the manga, because she got the most screen time and backstory and such a great relationship with Chibiusa as well as the other Outers) but okay.